| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | I charge $0.01/w, I have 3 years of experience, how much should I be charging? Thread poster: Ammar Naif
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Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 12:56
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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Lefteris Kritikakis wrote: Lingua 5B wrote:
Was this a joke? What will happen when they are about to send an invoice, will they have US or UK bank account to present on the invoice? No, Internet is NOT a cloud completely disconnected from reality, quite the contrary.
[Edited at 2024-01-15 10:01 GMT] If you think this is a joke, explain to me why Agencies prices are irrelevant to their stated registered address. Agencies in the US have about the same prices to end-clients as agencies in Italy. For years in here you are promoting the idea that translators should price according to their cost of living. While at the same time, the agency charges the end-client the same amount regardless of the translator's cost of living etc. So in the case of the original poster, we may have agencies charging the client 20 cents per word, and he charges 1. Because nobody told him what's going on.
That has nothing to do with what I referred to in my reply, and that’s lying about the location which not only is wrong but also impossible to do.
Actually agencies charge different rates for different pairs, to direct clients.
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Samuel Murray wrote:
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
No, translators must always be honest. While international borders have become blurry on the internet, your physical location is still your physical location, and if asked, you should speak the truth.
"if asked" being the key phrase, right?
Should he change his price if he visits a friend in Canada for 6 months or so?
What if everyone in here understands that location is irrelevant to prices, translators should not price their services according to "local cost of living", because this creates one of the bias factors that drives down prices continuously? One of the factors that some US agencies are treating certain local markets almost as online plantations... (at the same time they charge the end-client 4-5 times as much).
What if agencies did not know the physical location of a translator up to the time of invoicing?
With all payments done through online payment services, with the "tax address" revealed only upon payment? (and that's even a non-issue for US agencies, since they don't send 1099s abroad).
Don't you think agencies would change their approach if they didn't know the location in advance?
Because most of them know (and take advantage of this) which are the "cheap" countries vs. the "expensive" ones. The end-client is not aware what's going on and pays a lot of money.
| | | | Quentin NEVEN
Belgium
Local time: 12:56
Member (Jan 2024)
English to French
+ ...
| You should charge more | Jan 15 |
Hi Ammar,
In short, I think you should charge more.
You accepted a very low rate at the beginning to get started. I do not believe this is necessary but, as a beginner myself, I understand where that comes from.
Anyways, you have built a good experience now and you have a better grasp of the industry you work in. You should forget about your previous clients and focus on the future. Set your rate, learn how to market yourself properly and be patient. ... See more Hi Ammar,
In short, I think you should charge more.
You accepted a very low rate at the beginning to get started. I do not believe this is necessary but, as a beginner myself, I understand where that comes from.
Anyways, you have built a good experience now and you have a better grasp of the industry you work in. You should forget about your previous clients and focus on the future. Set your rate, learn how to market yourself properly and be patient.
You do not have a formal degree but you worked hard for this. Do not sell yourself short !
I believe you could ask between $0,08 and $0,10 now.
Good luck to you ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 12:56
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
The end client does their research in advance, nobody has money to throw.
The ProZ messaging discloses everyone’s IP. Agency PMs check locations and IPs, it’s their job. Living in an online cloud, without any connection to the real world, won’t be possible.
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| What translator is willing to be paid... | Jan 15 |
Actually agencies charge different rates for different pairs, to direct clients.
I'm fully aware of the pricing structure since I have handled and I have seen both contracts (and also as a client and client rep myself).
Did you ever wonder why?
The whole package itself is internally re-arranged. If the agency knows that they can find cheap translators for "Language A", they will place the remainder on "Language B" or just pocket it.
The end-client is paying for a package of say 30 languages that is itemized by services. The end-client doesn't know, in most cases, how the agency allocates the fees among languages.
The package is already sold at a specific total price, in most cases, way before it appears on the online platforms or email lists.
Translators willing to be paid less, will definitely be paid less, end of story!
And if their mindset is "I'll eat beansoup for a year in order to have lower prices", it will happen.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 12:56
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
Don't you think agencies would change their approach if they didn't know the location in advance?
I've never had the impression that agencies offer me a rate based on my location. They do sometimes offer me a rate based on THEIR location (especially if they are located in an inexpensive country). Rather, they tend to offer me a rate based on the language combination and the subject field.
Ammar has a bit of a problem in that his language combination is "English to Syrian Arabic", and I'm not sure how many clients who want Arabic translations want Syrian Arabic. What Amman could do is to claim that he is capable of translating into e.g. Egyptian Arabic, but only he would know whether that is truly true or not. He also offers Arabic to English, and although he's not a native speaker of English, he appears to be able to write in fairly good English, which may be sufficient for most translation purposes.
It is conceivable that an agency might discriminate against you based on your location, but I've never experienced the discrimination to be rate related.
[Edited at 2024-01-15 14:05 GMT]
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Lingua 5B wrote:
The end client does their research in advance, nobody has money to throw.
Two years ago I received an email from a medium-sized Tech company in the US, asking me about potential cooperation because "the agency sold them a premium package that ended up just machine translation".
And a project manager of another agency was recently telling me that it's impossible to get pricing intentions from end-clients, as if they are not looking for a better price, but just shooting in the dark.
Research? How? This is one the most secretive industries in the world. Nobody reveals prices, terms, etc. - and the only way to know the prices, is to be a client yourself.
It's no accident that only one (1) major agency is listed in the stock market (the certainty of publishing audited financial statements that reveal their profit margin and mark-ups is a huge no-no for even the largest agencies).
Anonymous translators, anonymous editors, agencies that never reveal their associates but they all claim that they have "hundreds of specialists" (lol), and secret prices. How would any end-client do research?
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 12:56
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| @Lefteris Kritikakis | Jan 15 |
You know that your IP is visible in your emails? Sure, if you are tech savvy, you can get around this, but at the latest when you issue an invoice you have to state your real address.
I really wonder how you can seriously advise someone to lie about where they live.
Your personal experiences may have led you to mope, and I am sorry about this, but it is not true for all of us.
Perhaps you have some real useful tip for the OP?
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| True - but in the end, it invalidates this job as a business | Jan 15 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Ammar has a bit of a problem in that his language combination is "English to Syrian Arabic".
True - with some language pairs it's difficult to estimate pricing. But behind very low prices, one of the factors remains the theory propagated here on connecting prices to local cost of living (the latter would invalidate this job as a business... it would classify it as "just a gig to pay the bills").
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Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
Everything on my profile is true about me. I was merely pointing out that "residence address" is irrelevant to jobs that are done exclusively over the internet (and I've been saying that for 20+ years).
Ok, yours is true, but, can you explain how to issue invoices, receive payments, pay taxes while declaring living in the USA instead of Emirates?
Please tell us
| | | | | You're making assumptions about me | Jan 15 |
Zea_Mays wrote:
Your personal experiences may have led you to mope, and I am sorry about this, but it is not true for all of us.
Perhaps you have some real useful tip for the OP?
You're making assumptions about me, which are false and slanderous.
I'm merely reacting to the "locality factor", since it's been propagated in these forums for years that one should price according to their cost of living. I warned about this bad practice 15 years ago in these forums, because this is not how a business is conducted. Unless this is not a business, not even a solid international profession, but just a gig to pay local bills (gigs have this characteristic of adjusting fees per basic cost of living).
If my provocation wakes even a few people up to the reality that physical address should not affect pricing if the product is the same, then my post was more useful than the usual "well, it depends" one reads in these posts. Even with a 25-year delay. Btw, agencies do not adjust their prices more than 10-15% when they are based in cheaper countries, and in most cases they all just go for the max they can get.
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Angie Garbarino wrote:
Ok, yours is true, but, can you explain how to issue invoices, receive payments, pay taxes while declaring living in the USA instead of Emirates?
Please tell us
Normally with your normal address (let's say Emirates). My question is, do we have to declare in internet profiles that we live in the Emirates? What if you visit a friend in the USA for a few months? Will your prices change?
My whole point is that locality creates a pricing bias. The agency says "this guy lives in the Emirates, he will accept a lower price". Yes, they do think like that, I assure you. And yes, they tell their clients that their translators are in the USA (for our example), to justify the prices they charge.
Isn't it funny that the client never knows the name of the translator and where he is located?
It's the only industry in the world that hides the names of all the people who created the project!
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a) And that is why a translator's resume is a black hole - can't prove anything if your name doesn't appear in any projects.
b) Kindly avoid personal attacks and assumptions about me, this is not "tweeter". Some of you came very close to actionable slander.
c) Any business person would say "if they base their prices on cost of living, while remaining invisible, then it's not a business or career, it's just an anonymous gig".
[... See more a) And that is why a translator's resume is a black hole - can't prove anything if your name doesn't appear in any projects.
b) Kindly avoid personal attacks and assumptions about me, this is not "tweeter". Some of you came very close to actionable slander.
c) Any business person would say "if they base their prices on cost of living, while remaining invisible, then it's not a business or career, it's just an anonymous gig".
[Edited at 2024-01-15 14:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 12:56
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
(The translation industry)It's the only industry in the world that hides the names of all the people who created the project!
Nope. Or do you know the names of the people who assembled the device you are writing your comments on? Or who built the Golden Gate?
BTW, there are agencies that put the final client in contact with the translators who work on their project. It's the case for one project I am involved in. Honestly, this is not always a plus.
[Bearbeitet am 2024-01-15 15:01 GMT]
| | | | Zea_Mays
Italy
Local time: 12:56
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| Bias the other way round | Jan 15 |
Many language professionals refuse to work with agencies based in certain regions - because THEIR rates are low, as someone already said.
As for being "anonymous" workers, if you collaborate with agencies, just ask them for a letter of recommendation. If you do a good job, most will be happy to provide one.
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