| 话题中的页数: < [1 2 3 4] | Off topic: Swearing 论题张贴者: Stéphanie Denton (X)
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Gene Selkov
英国
Local time: 07:16
Spanish西班牙语译成English英语
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| There is no magic in swearing | Nov 23, 2011 |
I am sorry for a late response (have just received the question), but in case it is still an interesting topic, I can contribute a bird's eye view of it.
I think I picked this idea from Michael Swan, a very long time ago, so can't give a precise reference. I think he had a section on swearwords in his book on English usage, where he wrote that such words are essentially group tags. One illustration of this argument that I recall was that, historically, if there was a superior caste,... See more I am sorry for a late response (have just received the question), but in case it is still an interesting topic, I can contribute a bird's eye view of it.
I think I picked this idea from Michael Swan, a very long time ago, so can't give a precise reference. I think he had a section on swearwords in his book on English usage, where he wrote that such words are essentially group tags. One illustration of this argument that I recall was that, historically, if there was a superior caste, let's say, priests, they would come up with a set of words that only they could use, attempting to prohibit their circulation among the lower castes. This illustrates the "taboo" aspect of swearing. If you use their words, you are a violator, they feel offended and issue a punitive response. Note how those of us here who still associate themselves with priests respond to the names of gods and such. But there are other distinct aspects, such as expression of emotions or racism.
In general, though, if you think of a swearword as an article of group identity, and analyse it in the context of general animal behaviour (not just human), you will see that Swan's idea of tags (if it was indeed his) makes a lot of sense. I have been testing it, both intentionally and accidentally, for a quarter-century, and it seems to have stood all tests. Also, it lends itself to interesting generalisations.
In general, animals need means of expressing emotions, claiming their place in the hierarchy, and on top of that, we are all racists.
Words are just one of several means of expression; whether or not you think the use of words is peculiar to humans does not matter. if you are into semantics, you can easily generalise what we call "speech" to the level of "communication", which will consist of "messages", and if you can further analyse "messages", you will probably come up with the idea of a "word" as an atomic message unit. Whether it is carried by a sound or a gesture, or other means, will not matter. What matters is that you get the signal across.
What makes a word a swearword? Is there such as thing as a swear-message? Can one assume a swear-stance or take on a swear-look? It only takes a moment of reflection to give an answer to each such question, supplementing it with abundant examples.
When you hear somebody important say "Do!", while somebody else, also important, says "Don't!", and you feel you have to take sides, the words said on your side become swearwords on the other, and vice versa. If you hear a word used exclusively by a group of people to which you hold contempt, it becomes a "dirty word". If the use of a certain word is associated with consequences, especially unpleasant or dire consequences, it is a "taboo word".
From this more distant and abstract vantage point, you can easily see, for example, how a foul word can become a taboo word. If you get your a$$ kicked by your parents for saying a "dirty word", it becomes a taboo, and when you do dare say it, the act of overcoming a taboo probably gives you an adrenaline rush of the kind you want to repeat, so no wonder you might later use it simply to express a strong emotion, or to reinforce it (note that in my use of the dollar signs, I did not mean for the word to appear less offensive; I simply think it is more fun that way). The differences between "taboo", "foul", "offensive" and "expressive" are fairly fluid, but I think you get a much clearer picture if you start from first principles. Sometimes, generalisation reduces complexity.
I can't forget a couple of my former office mates, who were both from India, but apparently from different worlds therein. They both spoke good English, sat next to each other in the office and appeared as co-authors on some publications. One thing they did not do, they did not eat lunch in the same room. As I was told, that would have been a dangerously dirty thing to do.
I could continue with a bookload of examples, but so can you, and it is getting late.
[Edited at 2011-11-24 00:20 GMT]
[Edited at 2011-11-24 11:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | kmtext
英国
Local time: 07:16
English英语
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- Is swearing too commonplace?
I would say yes.
- Do you get offended by swearing (if you answer this, I am going to have to be cheeky and ask for your age!)?
Not really, but I do get a bit bored in conversations when every second word is a swear-word - and I'm 42.
- Do you swear yourselves? If so, is it an active part of your daily language?
I tend not to swear very often, and only when I'm really annoyed. I was brought up to believe that swearing is... See more - Is swearing too commonplace?
I would say yes.
- Do you get offended by swearing (if you answer this, I am going to have to be cheeky and ask for your age!)?
Not really, but I do get a bit bored in conversations when every second word is a swear-word - and I'm 42.
- Do you swear yourselves? If so, is it an active part of your daily language?
I tend not to swear very often, and only when I'm really annoyed. I was brought up to believe that swearing is a useful tool in language, but should be used sparingly. There are usually better ways to get your point across and it's a shame to know all those other words and not use them. If someone swears a lot, I tend not to give too much weight to what they're saying. If someone who rarely swears starts to let fly, people usually sit up and listen.
- How offensive are swear words in your native tongue?
I'm native in Gàidhlig and English. Swearing in Gàidhlig tends to be fairly mild, although it has its moments. The more serious stuff tends to take the form of a phrase rather than one word, and can be extremely offensive. If I do swear, it's usually in English, because it's a language that lends itself well to swearing.
- How has swearing delevoped in your native tongue?
Not sure about this. Most swearing in Gàidhlig is fairly blasphemous if that's any help.
- Do you believe that the next generation are going to actively use swearing on a daily basis?
Unfortunately, yes. ▲ Collapse
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kmtext wrote:
If I do swear, it's usually in English, because it's a language that lends itself well to swearing.
But why is this, do you think? Is it because we place adjectives before verbs? Or because it's a language full of short words (at least, spoken English is)? Because we naturally accentuate syllables? Or is there something else about my native language that makes people want to swear in it?
Sheila
| | | | Gene Selkov
英国
Local time: 07:16
Spanish西班牙语译成English英语
+ ...
| The intent is more important than the language. | Dec 2, 2011 |
The grammatical structure of the language is probably the least important in this, although I tend to agree that if the expression of the intent is cumbersome (due to the peculiarities of grammar), it is less likely to have the desired effect.
And we judge the effectiveness of such things by observing how they work for somebody else.
A dominant male ape or a bull cannot say "fuck you" in English; instead he will often simulate copulation with the recipients of his messa... See more The grammatical structure of the language is probably the least important in this, although I tend to agree that if the expression of the intent is cumbersome (due to the peculiarities of grammar), it is less likely to have the desired effect.
And we judge the effectiveness of such things by observing how they work for somebody else.
A dominant male ape or a bull cannot say "fuck you" in English; instead he will often simulate copulation with the recipients of his message, as a quick and easy way to assert his dominance without fighting. It is so much easier to do than even simulating a fight would be.
Everybody watching the act will understand what it means and will attempt the same trick when the moment seems right. Naturally, the negative reinforcement also takes place. Imagine (or go to a zoo and watch) what happens when a weaker ape tries to say "fuck you" to a stronger ape. Ouch.
If you care to look, you will see that these behaviours are panzootic, and as such, are not affected by the grammar too much.
Regarding the relative mildness of such expressions in Gàidhlig, if that is true, I would certainly like to hear a native speaker's assessment, but after a quick reflection, I can suggest two possibilities. One, it appears that in Gàidhlig, a lot more is said in passive voice than in English, probably making it just a tad less efficient. Compare: "Tha mi ag iarraidh uisge" and "I want to drink". But a much stronger factor, I believe, is that Gàidhlig is a niche language and therefore you don't really see too many examples of striking success to copy. Not because it is impossible to achieve a striking success (I would that hard to believe), but because you don't see it on the telly as often as "fuck you" said by a popular Hollywood hero. ▲ Collapse
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