en le révélant à lui-même

English translation: for its self-revelation

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	en le révélant à lui-même
English translation:	for its self-revelation
Entered by:	Stephanie Ezrol

15:00 May 6, 2011

French to English translations [PRO]
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / Discussion about the history of surrealism

French term or phrase: en le révélant à lui-même

The full phrase I have is:

Les débats avec le PC ont été pour le surréalisme de la plus haute importance en le révélant à lui-même

the PC refers to the Communist Party, most probably of France, circa the 1930s. It is in the context of disputes between Aragon and Breton and his circles.

I believe that the meaning (not that the translation, per se) is that the debates were important to the surrealists in definining their own identity -- but I am not sure if that is correct, and I am not sure if that (defining their own identity) is too free a translation of the phrase.

Stephanie Ezrol KudoZ activity Questions: 148 (none open) (15 closed without grading) Answers: 650 United States
Local time: 13:01

for its self-revelation

Explanation:
Self-revelation is a term often used in connection with surrealism, not always of the individual variety.

".... Apollinaire coined the term "surrealism" in 1917 to describe a spontaneous ... often as an avenue to self-revelation. ... these relationships were the ... Curiously enough, however, Breton foretold this, too. ..."
radio-weblogs.com/0100537/categories/art/

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-05-06 17:42:52 GMT)
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"For surrealists what poetry is and does automatically transcends all literary and other conventional boundaries; it is always self-revelation, transformation, the breaking of chains, the becoming of freedom. "
http://www.utexas.edu/utpress/excerpts/exrossur.html

Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 19:01

Grading comment

I really want to thank everyone for their ideas and a very useful discussion
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +1

as a reflection on itself

mikecassady

3 +1

in revealing its true self

Kirsten Bodart

for its self-revelation

B D Finch

...in exposing its true identity (or "veritable identity")

Lara Barnett

in its coming into its own

Euqinimod (X)

Summary of reference entries provided

naissance du surréalisme

silvester55

Discussion entries: 3

Answers

33 mins confidence:

in its coming into its own

Explanation:
They were most instrumental in...

Euqinimod (X)
Local time: 19:01
Works in field
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 30

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

as a reflection on itself

Explanation:
Stephanie, I think you're pretty spot-on with your focus on identity. The usage is clearly reflexive, and, interestingly, if 'as a reflection on itself' is used, it has double sense of 'reflecting' as something one does, but also 'reflecting' in the sense of a mirror image. The Movement is working itself out, deciding what it is. I do think you could stick with 'defining their own identity', however, so take my suggestion with the lightness intended.

mikecassady
Local time: 10:01
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English

27 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

in revealing its true self

Explanation:
I don't think people should be involved in this as Surrealism in itself is more than its artists. Artists are themselves prone to their own execution, ideas and opinions, but Surrealism in itself is not. Therefore, the debates with the PC help in revealing the true and vast nature of Surrealism. 'A lui-même' is not really necessary as you are talking abstract.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-05-06 17:27:49 GMT)
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I meant to say that Surrealism is not a person, so it is hard to express 'à lui-même' without resulting in 'revealing itself to itself' or something of the kind, which does not read well. Actually, IMO, the phrase really means that even Surrealism and its core artists did not really know what it was and thus it developed to what we know now during those debates and no doubt through a lot of other occurrences. Therefore, the idea of Surrealism is abstract (it is not defined at that point) and it cannot really reveal itself to itself in English as it still has to learn what its self is. In French, 'lui-même' works better, also because it is not the same word as the subject and it reads better.

Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:01
Native speaker of:

Dutch,

English
PRO pts in category: 3

Notes to answerer

Asker: I am not sure what you mean by abstract, are you saying that definiting itself is an abstract idea? Whereas revealing its true self is not abstract?

2 hrs confidence:

for its self-revelation

B D Finch
France
Local time: 19:01
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 136

Grading comment

I really want to thank everyone for their ideas and a very useful discussion

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Barbara. I think self-relevation is very appropriate here.

6 hrs confidence:

...in exposing its true identity (or "veritable identity")

Explanation:
I think exposing can be used here if an adjective such as "true" or "veritable" is used to show that there is an "identity".
We can often use "expose" to suggest that something has been gradually evolving, or is starting to become more identifiable.

Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 42

Reference comments

1 hr

Reference: naissance du surréalisme

Reference information:
Au début du XXème siècle la peinture est un art bourgeois. En effet, pour assister aux expositions d'artistes et pour être artiste soi-même il faut appartenir à une classe bien définie, la bourgeoisie. Lorsque la guerre (1914-1918) survient, tous les hommes sont mis au même plan, dans les tranchées les classes sociales sont plus ou moins abolies. C'est durant cette guerre qu'ont lieu les révolutions russes(1917) et c'est après cette guerre qu'apparait "une second courant humaniste". Beaucoup d'intellectuels ( appartenant à la classe bourgeoise) commencent à s'intéresser à la nouvelle idéologie qu'est le communisme. Dans les années 20 le groupe surréaliste ( groupe d'intellectuels) auquel se joint Dali, Ernst, Magritte ... méprise la bourgeoisie et désire du renouveau dans la politique . Ces jeunes, parfois issus du dadaisme, rejettent la société établie, cette société où l'écart entre bourgeois et ouvriers se creuse irrémédiablement. Par la destructuration de la réalité dans leurs oeuvres les artistes peintres surréalistes désirent abolir toutes conventions artistiques instaurées par la bourgeoisie et ainsi l'anéantir. Le but premier de ces peintres était de détruire l'art qui était dirigé par les mentalités bourgeoises avant de devenir une étude sur le subconscient. L'abolition des classes sociales , image de la société surréaliste n'était-elle pas la principale préoccupation de l'idéologie communiste?

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Note added at 1 day2 hrs (2011-05-07 17:31:30 GMT)
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In his contribution to the first debate, Aragon expressed a clear vision of the type of realism he believed was the most appropriate response to the economic and political circumstances of the period: “This realism will no longer be dominated by nature—in other words it will not be naturalism—but will be a conscious expression of social realities and an integral part of the struggle to modify those realities. In a word, it will be a socialist realism...” [7] In line with his endorsement of the Soviet model, Aragon was critical both of Signac’s emphasis on formal radicalism and of the Surrealist dependence on the subconscious. In the first debate he launched an attack on the formalism into which modern artists had retreated:

They desired less and less that their painting should represent something, should signify. They drowned themselves in the delectation of manner and material. They lost themselves in abstraction. Nothing human remained in their canvases. They were happy to become demonstrators of technical problems of painting. [8]

Then in the second debate, in an obvious stab at the Surrealists, he noted: “Now you are unhappy that great social upheavals are disturbing the calmness of your chimeras and the languor of your visual meditations.” [9]

silvester55
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 4

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en le révélant à lui-même

English translation: for its self-revelation

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