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series evaluation
palsy
Jan 15, 2023 03:30
1 yr ago
47 viewers *
English term

BE AN EXERCISE = BE AN EXERCISE IN FUTILITY?

English Other Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
[Ex The X-Files] Skinner sceptic over Scully's suspicion of a link between both agent Mulder -- presumed dead -- and his father's killers:
SKINNER: "The investigation will..."
SCULLY: "The investigation will be an exercise! The men who killed Agent Mulder, the people who killed his father, they aren't meant to be found."
--> Though I personally haven't yet come across the pattern in speech, the inference does seem to figure. Now, am I right?
Thanks.
Responses
4 pointless exercise with no real chance of successful outcome
4 the investigation will be done without any intention of getting any substantial result.
3 the investigation won't help at all
3 The investigation is for showing the public that they are doing their job.
3 -1 good practice for the team

Discussion

Yvonne Gallagher Jan 19, 2023:
@FNO Really can't see how you believe you don't have TWO terms in the header?? The first answer dealt with "it's an exercise" as the expression asked. Re "It looks as if the problem is you somewhat hemming yourself in by so much unnecessary strictness where a bit common sense will do". HUH? I point out that if you make your questions clear, with context, you have a better chance of getting a clear answer faster and this is your insulting response?
FNO (asker) Jan 17, 2023:
@ Yvonne Gallagher I used the header as title to my question, namely, whether the usage at issue was, so to speak, a truncated iteration of the standard expression -- the reason, I produced it in the question proper. No idea how you came to read two questions into that. I am thankful for your insights regarding the doubt, nonetheless holding firmly to the belief I did not flout any rules. Finally, I did capitalized the header ("guilty"?), though you make it seem as though I uncurred the ad nauseam capitalization gimmick (clearly not the case). It looks as if the problem is you somewhat hemming yourself in by so much unnecessary strictness where a bit common sense will do.
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 17, 2023:
@ Asker Also, your question as ASKED (since some people seem to like capitalisation) was: "Though I personally haven't yet come across the pattern in speech, the inference does seem to figure. Now, am I right?"
So the first thing I did was answer that question instead of extrapolating stuff from the X-files (which I never liked much BTW) and agree with you what was inferred.
Yvonne Gallagher Jan 17, 2023:
@ Asker https://www.proz.com/kudozrules Please read these rules for posting. There seems to be no moderator here!
Of course I saw the question mark, that shouldn't be there (nor the =mark) in the first place. And there should be only ONE term in the header. And NO unnecessary capitalisation. So your question breaks a lot of rules and is really quite unclear as asked. It needed more context too to determine if 2nd expression was inferred
With further context it's clear the expression "an exercise iin futility" is inferred, so why didn't Scully say that? Well, some things are better left unsaid, especially when they must be seen to follow procedures. Even if it is a sham investigation, they can't openly admit that or announce it in advance.
It is overtranslation to extrapolate more than the usual meaning of the expression as given here.
Daryo Jan 15, 2023:
Thanks for the additional context although it comes at no surprise at all for anyone who watched at least few episodes of The X-Files. The whole series is an endless variation on the same easily recognisable basic theme.

If a bureaucracy investigating its own dirty linen is not a case of "pretending to look for s.t. you don't want to find" I don't know what else could be. SKINNER and SCULLY being part of it, they will be well aware of that fact of life.
FNO (asker) Jan 15, 2023:
CONTEXT: Mulder Sr's death was an inside job by the Bureau in cahoots with global special interests, as was Fox's near miss.

Responses

-1
4 hrs

good practice for the team

I don't feel that we can extract the meaning "an exercise in futility" without this actually being stated directly.

Instead, it may be that this "exercise" of conducting the investigation will be good practice for the investigating team, even if it does not yield any actual results.

I am not 100 percent confident about this response, as there is not enough context to support what I am saying. For example, I do not know if there are any junior investigators on the team who might benefit from this type of "exercise" or practice.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : That's not what's said in the ST, you shifted the meaning too much. When done for real, any investigation shouldn't be treated like no more than a training exercice, but you make it sound as something acceptable. // There is enough context.
16 mins
I just wanted to put it forth as a possibility in case there is anything that supports this in the wider context known to the poster.
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : A good explanation for "it's an exercise", a possibility, though unlikely I think. Asker has not given enough context to be sure this is intended here. You should have deleted other expression from header
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
8 hrs

the investigation won't help at all

:)
Peer comment(s):
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : You have 2 expressions in header that are not synonymous
1 hr
Yes, they are different - I hope he understand my (brief) answer
Something went wrong...
9 hrs
English term (edited): be an exercise in futility

pointless exercise with no real chance of successful outcome

I agree that this is probably the expression intended rather than just "an excercise" but need only one expression in header as the 2 are not synonymous

So yes, a waste of time carrying out any investifgation but they have to go through the motions and fiollow usual procedures anyway

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/exercise in futil... https://www.collinsdictionary.com/submission/6077/Exercise i...

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Note added at 9 hrs (2023-01-15 13:28:31 GMT)
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typos: "exercise", "investigation" and "follow". Sorry!
Note from asker:
Perhaps you missed the question mark in the header.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Daryo : you missed the key point of the ASKED question: it will deliberately be turned into a pointless investigation leading nowhere (a.k.a. "pretending to look for s.t. you don't want to find"), not because it's too difficult to find these murderers.
9 hrs
How many times do you have to edit your negativity and unwarranted disagrees? Clueless responses! Just shows how limited your English is. This is the meaning of the expression
agree Audrey Kidwell : It's a pointless exercise or exercise in futility because the killers aren't meant to be found, yet the team has to investigate anyway.
2 days 2 hrs
Many thanks:-) Yes, in this case it's apparently a sham investigation but they still have to be seen to follow usual procedures.
Something went wrong...
18 hrs

The investigation is for showing the public that they are doing their job.

Scully knows that the killers may never be found. The investigation is for showing the public that they are doing their job.
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

the investigation will be done without any intention of getting any substantial result.

just to show that the matter wasn't ignored.

Yes, the end result is "futility" (the investigation will be just wasted time) but the meaning is more like:

The investigation will be an exercise!
=
The investigation will be an exercise in keeping up the pretence of doing an investigation!
i.e. if you know the expression "show trial" you could call it a "show investigation"

You could see it as:

"The investigation will be no more than an exercise in following the procedures, but without any intention of making a real effort to achieve any result!

Also know as "going through the motions"

or

The investigation will be an exercise!
=
The investigation will be an empty gesture!



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Note added at 5 hrs (2023-01-15 09:22:57 GMT)
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"The men who killed Agent Mulder, the people who killed his father, they aren't meant to be found."

is a pretty strong clue that those leading the investigation are not going to make any real effort to find people that are "not meant to be found" (= protected by people far above those leading the investigation).

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Note added at 6 hrs (2023-01-15 09:37:05 GMT)
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final version:

'The investigation will be an exercise!'
=
it will be a 'pretend' investigation = they will be looking for s.t. they don't want to find

Nothing to do with any kind of literal "training exercice".

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Note added at 2 days 1 hr (2023-01-17 04:52:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yet another version:

'The investigation will be [no more than] an exercise in box ticking'

Peer comment(s):
neutral FPC : 'Futile' is different from being mock. For instance, an exercise in the military obviously is not intended to wage real war or combat, but it's far from 'futile'. Quite useful, indeed.
1 hr
true, but not relevant for this ST // Asker is right that the end result will be 'wasted time', but 'The investigation will be an exercise!' means it will be a 'pretend' investigation = they will be looking for s.t. they don't want to find.
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : Overtranslation. Not necessarily a "pretend exercise". Where did you get "st they don't want to find"? Plus you should only have 1 expression in header
5 hrs
"st they don't want to find" is **an explanation** // Either you didn't read: 1- the context given 2- my whole answer or you have no idea about how typical bureaucrat's mind works // clue: SKINNER and SCULLY are federal agents = bureaucrats.
agree Anastasia Kalantzi : Missed not even one single episode. https://prezi.com/waiv-r1vaiqn/the-psychology-of-the-x-files...
1 day 3 hrs
After about 10-15 episodes, I lost interest // Thanks!
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