| Număr de pagini: [1 2 3] > | TRANSLATION COMPANIES ARE KILLING THE LINGUISTS BEFORE AI Inițiatorul discuției: Burcu Erdogan
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Burcu Erdogan 
Turcia
Local time: 14:47
Membru (2012)
din engleză în turcă
+ ...
I have never come across a service, any kind of service, the rates of which never increase! The plumber charged 500 TL two summers ago for replacing the toilet flush in the bathroom; one month ago, the price was 2.500 TL for the same work. A cleaning lady has to increase her wage every six months to cope with the ever-increasing life costs. So rightfully. But linguists! Haha! They have to find creative ways of living with their ever-decreasing rates, because the translation companies, from the s... See more I have never come across a service, any kind of service, the rates of which never increase! The plumber charged 500 TL two summers ago for replacing the toilet flush in the bathroom; one month ago, the price was 2.500 TL for the same work. A cleaning lady has to increase her wage every six months to cope with the ever-increasing life costs. So rightfully. But linguists! Haha! They have to find creative ways of living with their ever-decreasing rates, because the translation companies, from the smallest to the largest, to the giants, have to maximize their profits. Be creative, Dear Valuable Linguistic Asset, be creative as you do in your marketing translations, you know how to do that. Apply the same ability you already have in your veins to meet your human needs!
I usually ponder upon the image of a linguist through the eyes of a translation agency boss. How would it seem, our life, to this Boss? We should be imaged probably as human beings, who cannot (and to this Boss, probably should never, better never) leave their parents’ place, their small room in the house with their pyjamas and slippers on, does not need to sleep or go out with their friends at the weekends or one evening according to their own time zone (how dare you linguistic asset!), and most importantly has the necessary know-how and experience about how to exist (at least how to not extinct) amidst the ever changing economic and financial landscape on the global level – I mean on the global level, not just in Turkey! – thus, who must be really very very clever. Thank you, Boss; that is so flattering, but do you ever think – what a foolish question – that you might be overrating our capabilities a bit too much?
AI, in the future, might take over all the work the linguists have been carrying out, but that future is still an unknown one, maybe speeding up its arrival each and every day, but the translation companies are too eager to wait. The linguists are the only reason of their existence, the only “asset” they have depended on to provide services to their clients. This is no exaggeration. A linguist has been the reason of existence for that Boss and is still so, since we see very obviously that AI still cannot provide in-context translation, gathers up some nonsense collection of information, cannot provide the correct terminology in a specific field, cannot divide too long sentences into meaningful and clear pieces etc. Shortly, I have got news for you, Boss: You still need linguists to provide all those services up to the quality level you mention incessantly in your website, in your marketing and advertising materials and if those are not simply lies and you are actually providing those services with the promised quality, it is not the AI that you must be depending on heavily, but the linguists in their pyjamas and slippers, sitting up all night right in front of their laptops!
Hello, it is us, the linguists, Boss; the linguists that keep you warm and safe. Don’t be scared, we are not bugs that you impulsively kill with the sole of your shoes. We are human beings who have the right to want to pay our inflated rents – no, please do not have a heart attack, because we do not even dare buying our own houses, just wish to pay our rents, eat healthy and go out once in a while with our friends… Or maybe go on a vacation for one or two weeks every year? No, sorry, the latter was indeed dreaming high. But why kill us way before AI does, Boss?
Some practices this Boss has been using even existed quite before AI, maybe to kill the bugs softly, who knows. For example, do you ever imagine a service charged for 0.06 cents in the world? I can buy nothing, literally nothing in exchange for 0.06 USD. I assume no taxi driver would even bother to look for a 0.06 USD (does such a coin even exist!) as change to their passengers. On the contrary, they would usually expect some extra for the safe travel they provided to their passengers! But the linguist has to translate this 1-word task for 0.06 USD, because the Boss cannot afford paying minimum rates, because it is way above the client’s budget, because it is crazy to pay a linguist a minimum rate for 1 small word – just 1 wordie dude, c’mon! So, the linguist receives this 1-word task, accepts it, enters the credentials to download the file or access the client portal, opens the task to just complete it in 1 second, but Bam, damn you fool! If this one word were only “website”, too easy it would be, isn’t it? Almost like a dream that comes true in exchange for only 0.06 USD! But the word is “site”. Alas! Is it a construction site? Or maybe the client uses “site” for a specific facility it might have… Or if the client is a hotel, then could it simply mean the hotel? Or is it just “website” translated from Chinese to English by some AI to be translated into Turkish by a real human being as was promised to the client? Are there any reference materials? Let’s check back the email, maybe we can hunt some clue there. Nope, nothing. It is already 10 minutes passed for an exchange of 0.06 USD!
Trying another way to kill the linguist softly, the Boss decides to choose the best possible linguist for a new client. What does he do to choose? Of course, the Boss decides to send FREE TRANSLATION TESTS to multiple linguists, promising them “regular work load”, “long term cooperation”, “exciting job opportunity”. So the linguist spends hours maybe, if not days, to provide the best quality for the Boss for FREE. And their effort yields the desired solution, the FREE translation test is a Pass. Great news, congratulations! You are now onboarded, dear Asset! So the linguist, happy with the Pass result for FREE, waits for the first assignment. It would be long term, it would be regular, it would be an exciting opportunity, so had said the Boss! 1000 words in total in 6 months turns out to be the reality. Because you are not the only linguist who passed the test, you little naïve thing. There are many others out there. And the linguist waits, and the Boss decides to assign the tasks on an auction. What does it mean? So simple: You just throw a piece of bone to the streets for the dogs waiting in the corner and the fastest one gets the bone. Others will have to wait for the next bone, and again only the fastest one will get it. That is how the Boss decides to treat its valuable assets.
Not enough though, there must be other ways to kill the linguists softly: Let’s not pay the transfer costs of the linguists, decides the Boss one morning. Am I stupid, thinks the Boss, I am sending their payments every 45 or 60 days and am I the one who is going to pay the costs for paying them! No way, Boss. We will pay them for you. So, 25-30 USD for each transfer would bear a very high risk for your fragile business, but it means nothing for our lives. Of course, the linguist, in their pyjamas and slippers sitting up until morning in front of their laptops in their parents’ house, will pay them for you. You just concentrate on your business, please, we are always there for you!
And a linguist knows. A linguist knows very well that there are many more ways, very creative ones, many more smart games played within the TMs and translation tools’ weighted word count calculations to kill the linguists even more softly. But why? A linguist cannot say. Maybe they are just valuable bugs standing always in the way of the lucrative business of the Boss. But it is not AI, believe me, that is the murderer!
[Değişiklik saati 2025-02-12 10:16 GMT]
[Değişiklik saati 2025-02-12 10:28 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | kd42
Estonia
Local time: 13:47
din engleză în rusă
I have a fairly good client they took my both kids through a paid Uni.
When they switched to a "job management system", they left most things at their default values.
Therefore, when I log in, the system greets me -- "Welcome, resource!"
| | | | Jose Ruivo
Portugalia
Local time: 11:47
Membru (2007)
din engleză în portugheză
+ ...
and demand is the law of the free market. It's far easier to find a translator - or just google translate, chat gpt, etc - than a plummer!
And while a plummer's probable demand for work remains unchanged, I think, AI is doing most of our work, there will be less work, for the same number of professionals. It creates the result you already know.
I do increasingly MTPE, rather than actual translation work.
| | | | PAS
Local time: 12:47
din poloneză în engleză
+ ...
The sad truth is, ChatGPT can do translation. However, it cannot physically fix your toilet
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Lieven Malaise
Belgia
Local time: 12:47
Membru (2020)
din franceză în olandeză
+ ...
PAS wrote:
The sad truth is, ChatGPT can do translation. However, it cannot physically fix your toilet
The real truth is that ChatGPT can do imperfect translation. The difference with a plumber is that you're nothing with a poorly fixed toilet, while poorly translated text can still be used. Let's not forget that poorly translated texts have been used since like ever. The difference is that humans used to manufacture the crap, nowadays it's AI. Which brings me to the good news : translators that really deliver quality still have a future, because AI can't deliver that without at least human intervention.
[Bijgewerkt op 2025-02-13 09:57 GMT]
| | | | PAS
Local time: 12:47
din poloneză în engleză
+ ...
@Lieven - sorry, some text went missing in my post, I meant to write "can do translation, however badly".
As to quality translations - with increasing frequency I see that things like style, proper punctuation, spelling do not seem to pose a problem for many people, so a poor, literal translation returned by a bot is simply taken at face value.
I once had a very lengthy session with other translators, trying to point out shorctomings in their work. Sometimes they simply could not see... See more @Lieven - sorry, some text went missing in my post, I meant to write "can do translation, however badly".
As to quality translations - with increasing frequency I see that things like style, proper punctuation, spelling do not seem to pose a problem for many people, so a poor, literal translation returned by a bot is simply taken at face value.
I once had a very lengthy session with other translators, trying to point out shorctomings in their work. Sometimes they simply could not see the problem. They thought their translation was OK. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Matthias Brombach
Germania
Local time: 12:47
Membru (2007)
din olandeză în germană
+ ...
| The plumbers again! | Feb 12 |
Leave them alone, please. As if working-class people consist of plumbers only! What is the reason why translators always compare themselves with plumbers? Is it fear? Is it admiration? Or is it simply a lack of phantasy and deeper insight into the real world outside the translation cells?
| | | | Daryo
Regatul Unit
Local time: 11:47
din sârbă în engleză
+ ...
| That mantra doesn't hold water | Feb 12 |
Jose Ruivo wrote:
and demand is the law of the free market. It's far easier to find a translator - or just google translate, chat gpt, etc - than a plummer!
And while a plummer's probable demand for work remains unchanged, I think, AI is doing most of our work, there will be less work, for the same number of professionals. It creates the result you already know.
I do increasingly MTPE, rather than actual translation work.
'Supply and demand is the law of the free market' - yeah sure, that's a nice sounding mantra - even looks fairly plausible until you start scratching the surface.
And start looking at how such underlying theoretical niceties as 'perfect availability of information' and 'equal negotiating power' translate in the real-life world ... Find me one single case of that happening for real and I'll happily listen to you repeating your mantra as long you wish ...
OTOH I could give far more than one sample of 'a free fox in a free henhouse' type of 'free market'. No need to look very far ...
[Edited at 2025-02-12 20:43 GMT]
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Dan Lucas
Regatul Unit
Local time: 11:47
Membru (2014)
din japoneză în engleză
| You know that the solution lies in our hands | Feb 13 |
Don't work with exploitative agencies.
Every time you say "yes" to them you empower them.
It really is that simple.
And yet a significant subset of the freelancer community clearly believes otherwise, or at least acts otherwise.
Regards,
Dan
[Edited at 2025-02-13 09:42 GMT]
| | | | Juno Bos
Ţările de Jos
Local time: 12:47
Membru (2011)
din germană în olandeză
+ ...
PAS wrote:
The sad truth is, ChatGPT can do translation. However, it cannot physically fix your toilet
But I am still seeing an increase in business and I am not talking anything to do with AI, so or I am in a niche... or AI isn't doing it for my customers.
| | | | Baran Keki
Turcia
Local time: 14:47
Utilizator
din engleză în turcă
| Which translation companies, and which linguists? | Feb 13 |
Burcu Erdogan wrote:
You just throw a piece of bone to the streets for the dogs waiting in the corner and the fastest one gets the bone. Others will have to wait for the next bone, and again only the fastest one will get it. That is how the Boss decides to treat its valuable assets.
Unfortunately the reality has been thus for the majority of us translating from English. But I get the feeling that those translating from major languages into English would find it a bit hard to relate to your post. AI or no AI, they're still commanding better rates and potentially have access to 'direct clients' (the holy grail) that pay even better rates. You, on the other hand, being based in Turkey (though this doesn't really matter), and translating into Turkish, have no way of getting direct clients from Europe or North America, and you probably know better than not to get involved with direct clients from Turkey.
If you were working with Turkish translation agencies, then your long piece would have been a moot point.
About the "translators and plumbers" analogy, I've went to a dentist for the first time after more than two decades (been avoiding it for fear of pain and that infernal drilling sound). He worked on my teeth for about less than 2 hours over 3 days, and charged me about the equivalent of 700 EUR (which was meant to be a special discount for me). I forked out the cash and on the way home I thought to myself the translators 'specializing in dentistry' (meaning those who left dentistry to embrace the 'wonderful world of translation'), or, come to that, the medical translators who left healthcare industry for translation are the most stupid people in the world (no offense!). Leaving all that cash to whinge on the Proz forum, serves you right.
| | | | Burcu Erdogan
Turcia
Local time: 14:47
Membru (2012)
din engleză în turcă
+ ...
INIŢIATORUL SUBIECTULUI | Interesting point :) | Feb 13 |
My example was simply because I needed a fix in the bathroom very recently and maybe because due to my home-office profession, I indeed might have very poor imagination of other professions, but though you sound angry, your comment made me smile since I simply did not know that I was not the first one who made this comparison...
Matthias Brombach wrote:
Leave them alone, please. As if working-class people consist of plumbers only! What is the reason why translators always compare themselves with plumbers? Is it fear? Is it admiration? Or is it simply a lack of phantasy and deeper insight into the real world outside the translation cells?
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Matthias Brombach wrote:
Leave them alone, please. As if working-class people consist of plumbers only! What is the reason why translators always compare themselves with plumbers? Is it fear? Is it admiration? Or is it simply a lack of phantasy and deeper insight into the real world outside the translation cells?
Maybe it is because many translators work from home and maybe live alone, so meeting a plumber is a true highlight of their day (week) and one of the few precious human contacts that they have?
Anyway, based on this thread, I will now focus on MTPE and plumbing skills to become 100% future-proof.
| | | | Jose Ruivo
Portugalia
Local time: 11:47
Membru (2007)
din engleză în portugheză
+ ...
Matthias Brombach wrote:
Leave them alone, please. As if working-class people consist of plumbers only! What is the reason why translators always compare themselves with plumbers? Is it fear? Is it admiration? Or is it simply a lack of phantasy and deeper insight into the real world outside the translation cells?
Jealous! I wish I were a plumber! Or a maçon, or a painter, or...at least were I live.
| | | | Jose Ruivo
Portugalia
Local time: 11:47
Membru (2007)
din engleză în portugheză
+ ...
Daryo wrote:
Jose Ruivo wrote:
and demand is the law of the free market. It's far easier to find a translator - or just google translate, chat gpt, etc - than a plummer!
And while a plummer's probable demand for work remains unchanged, I think, AI is doing most of our work, there will be less work, for the same number of professionals. It creates the result you already know.
I do increasingly MTPE, rather than actual translation work.
'Supply and demand is the law of the free market' - yeah sure, that's a nice sounding mantra - even looks fairly plausible until you start scratching the surface.
And start looking at how such underlying theoretical niceties as 'perfect availability of information' and 'equal negotiating power' translate in the real-life world ... Find me one single case of that happening for real and I'll happily listen to you repeating your mantra as long you wish ...
OTOH I could give far more than one sample of 'a free fox in a free henhouse' type of 'free market'. No need to look very far ... [Edited at 2025-02-12 20:43 GMT]
1) It's not my mantra;
2) I don't like it;
3) It's the sad truth.
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