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Informe pericial psicológico

Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

se vuelve ingrato

English translation:

becomes a persona non grata

Added to glossary by Manuel Aburto
Apr 22, 2020 23:47
4 yrs ago
41 viewers *
Spanish term

se vuelve ingrato

Spanish to English Law/Patents Law: Taxation & Customs Taxation
Hola,

Otra consulta
Ahora, retomando el tema de la consideración de Delito Base o Delito Precedente para el Blanqueo de Capitales, los Delitos contra el Tesoro Nacional, podemos inferir hay un gran avance, en materia de Compliance, pues vuelve muy severas las consecuencias por este tipo de delitos. Ya que imaginemos que alguien con un antecedente de investigación por Blanqueo de Capitales, **se vuelve ingrato** para el sistema financiero, pudiendo fácilmente ser nominado a las famosas listas grises.

My try:

"... becomes ineligible for the financial system"

Sin embargo, me da la impresión que mi traducción está incompleta.

De antemano, gracias!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 becomes a persona non grata
4 +2 undesirable
4 -2 becomes in breach of the financial system regulations
3 -3 he became abhorred
References
Became persona non grata

Discussion

Taña Dalglish Apr 24, 2020:
@ Francois So, but you were/are! What is your point, Francois? If you were professional, then you would not allow a "hair-splitting" remark to bother you.
Do you have a reason for your uncalled for remark (about unprofessional), or is this just "pay back time"? Or are you a man or a child?
Francois Boye Apr 24, 2020:
I was accused of hair splitting!
Reuben Wright Apr 24, 2020:
Grey list "The Financial Action Task Force (FATF) was established in July 1989 by a Group of Seven (G-7) countries in a Summit held in Paris. The initial motive of FATF was to examine and develop measures to combat money laundering."

https://www.jagranjosh.com/general-knowledge/grey-list-and-b...

When the FATF places a jurisdiction under increased monitoring, it means the country has committed to resolve swiftly the identified strategic deficiencies within agreed timeframes and is subject to increased monitoring. This list is often externally referred to as the ‘grey list’.

https://www.fatf-gafi.org/publications/high-risk-and-other-m...
Lydia De Jorge Apr 24, 2020:
@Francois We are here to try to assist our colleagues, NOT to hurl insults!
Taña Dalglish Apr 24, 2020:
@ Francois Really now? Look, both Reuben and myself and all of us on this thread are professional translators. Perhaps, the question to be asked is, "Are you?" as your last comment is unprofessional to say the least! Pray tell, in your opinion, what is not professional about the use of "persona non grata"? Francois, please do not come on a forum which incidentally is Spanish to English, and which I personally (now) feel you have no business commenting on in the first place. Your first two language pairs suggest otherwise: English to French / French to English, but I stop short of implying that you may well understand Spanish to English, but to suggest that all of us on this particular thread are anything but professional is way out of line! Francois, for your own sake, I ask you not to annoy me today, or step on my corn, and you've been warned. Further, the French language usage as per this question is irrelevant. It is Spanish to English!
Francois Boye Apr 24, 2020:
You are professional translators; as the result, you should use professional expressions, not metaphors.
Reuben Wright Apr 24, 2020:
@ Francois Boye
Agree with Taña, and the link she posted supporting its use in finance. This expression has become common parlance outside of diplomatic affairs and yes, it comes from, but is not exclusive to diplomatic affairs. Another option is "became a black sheep" (this is a mixed metaphor that has also become common outside of family members) but persona non grata is much clearer and a much better register.
Francois Boye Apr 24, 2020:
A foreign diplomat may be declared a persona non grata in a country, but not by a stock market.

Stock market sanctions are mainly a) the delisting of a stock or b) the termination of the license of a financial market operator.
Taña Dalglish Apr 24, 2020:
@ Francois Boye Your comment on a proposal by David Hollywood. FB: Frankly, you are splitting hairs now and being more a hindrance than a help. The term persona non grata is a "generic" term, if you will, applicable not only to diplomacy, but in many other fields. I have sent a link for your perusal and attention: https://fichtelegal.com/tag/persona-non-grata/ To state that it is diplomacy only is just downright disingenuous. Good night Francois!
Reuben Wright Apr 23, 2020:
"Persona non grata" is a good translation, as suggested by David Hollywood.

"If someone becomes or is declared persona non grata, they become unwelcome or unacceptable because of something they have said or done.
The government has declared the French ambassador persona non grata and ordered him to leave the country."

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/persona...
Tomasso Apr 23, 2020:
suspect, unwelcome se vuelve ingrato** para el sistema financiero, pudiendo fácilmente ser nominado a las famosas listas grises.

surgencia, no es mi especialida, me ocure "becomes (is) no longer welcome in the financial world and can easily be put on the list of those of quesionalble integrity"

Proposed translations

+6
4 hrs
Selected

becomes a persona non grata

I would suggest

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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-23 03:49:59 GMT)
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or: gray/grey-listed

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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-23 03:52:03 GMT)
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Una lista gris o greylist es una técnica para el control de mensajes spam. Es un método de defensa que bloquea la mayoría de los spam que se reciben en un ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-23 03:55:49 GMT)
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I think that links up with both ideas... becomes a persona non grata and could easily be grey/gray-listed

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-23 03:57:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"gray" (US) "grey" (UK)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-23 03:59:09 GMT)
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and when shall the twain e'r meet...

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Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2020-04-24 03:14:17 GMT)
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and "persona non grata" without the article is better I agree
Peer comment(s):
agree Reuben Wright : This is a good equivalent phrase.
41 mins
thanks Reuben appreciated
agree Lydia De Jorge
2 hrs
gracias/thanks Lydia
agree neilmac : No article required (= became persona non grata)...
3 hrs
I agree Neil and thanks
agree Marouchka Heijnen : I agree that no article is required
5 hrs
thanks Marouchka
agree Paulina Sobelman
6 hrs
thanks/gracias Paulina
agree Taña Dalglish : Agree with Neil. No article needed. /Francois Boye: See my note addressed to you in the discussion box above // Splitting hairs // diplomacy - absolutely not!
8 hrs
thanks Taña
neutral Francois Boye : This concept (persona non grata) is relevant to diplomacy, not finance.
11 hrs
thanks Francois but "persona non grata" can (and is) used outside diplomacy
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
3 hrs

undesirable

La traducción literal de ingrato es "ungrateful", pero dado que hablamos de evasión de impuestos para mi el sentido del adjetivo que se busca es más "indeseable" en español.

Yo diría "becomes undesirable for the financial system" or "becomes a persona non grata for the financial system", ya que en el contexto de ese párrafo me atrevo a decirte que incluso el térnino en español está empleado de forma curiosa, puesto que, según la RAE, ingrato es aquel que no agradece lo que ha recibido previamente.
https://dle.rae.es/ingrato
Peer comment(s):
agree Robert Carter : Yes, undesirable is the idea, plus you already mentioned "persona non grata" first, if others thought that was a better translation. I think "off-putting" would be a good choice too.
15 hrs
Thank you
agree Tomasso : indeseable, me parece Persona existe tmb pero diplomatic term,https://context.reverso.net/traduzione/italiano-spagnolo/osp...
16 hrs
Bueno, persona non grata se usa a veces fuera del contexto diplomático, pero no lo había oído en finanzas. No sé. Gracias.
Something went wrong...
-2
3 hrs

becomes in breach of the financial system regulations

(Derecho Civil) Causa de revocación de las liberalidades cuando el agraciado ha atentado contra la vida del donante, o se ha hecho culpable ante él de crueldades, delitos o injurias graves, o se ha negado a proveerlo de alimentos. V. Indignidad para suceder.

Source: Enciclopedia Juridica
Peer comment(s):
disagree Lydia De Jorge : A person does not "become in breach". This is not proper English! Also, your explanation is not relevant to the context.
1 day 14 hrs
disagree Taña Dalglish : Again! https://fichtelegal.com/tag/persona-non-grata/ (financial context). Francois: How tall are you in m? (Serious question!)
1 day 15 hrs
Something went wrong...
-3
4 hrs

he became abhorred

Peer comment(s):
disagree Lydia De Jorge : Perhaps if you took the time to read the context you could provide a reasonable suggestion. Definition of abhor. transitive verb. : to regard with extreme repugnance : to feel hatred or loathing for : loathe abhorred violence.
2 hrs
disagree Taña Dalglish : Juan: The Histories Book 2: Euterpe??? In addition to what a colleague said above in disagreeing, one does not "become abhorred", it is "one is abhorred". However, 90% of your suggestions appear to be just "let me try a thing", and are often misleading
8 hrs
disagree Wilsonn Perez Reyes : Juan, con todo mi respeto. No se trata de contestar por contestar. Con eso solo ganas desprestigio en esta comunidad, porque si alguien se toma el tiempo de revisar tus respuestas se llevará una desagradable sorpresa.
20 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

7 hrs
Reference:

Became persona non grata

The expression is normally used without the indefinite article "a", as in the examples below...
Example sentence:

Brad Pitt became persona non grata in the People's Republic of China...

Reference:

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/sentences-with-the-word/persona_non_grata.html

https://opil.ouplaw.com/view/10.1093/law/9780198703969.001.0001/law-9780198703969-chapter-10

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Lydia De Jorge
1 day 11 hrs
agree Taña Dalglish : Absolutely. Continue to stay very safe, Neil.
2 days 4 hrs
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