| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16] > | Complimentary TM-Town membership for ProZ.com members Thread poster: Jared Tabor
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Lidia Galli 
Germany
Local time: 16:43
English to Italian
+ ...
| From Basic Plan to the complimentary membership | Apr 26, 2016 |
Hi Kevin,
Sorry to bother you, but I was wondering how the upgrade works.
I used my Proz account to sign up for TM-Town.
I got the Basic plan. As requested, I added the translation sample I have on my Proz profile.
My account is still Basic, so I was wondering if I have to do something to upgrade it in my profile settings or it will be upgraded in some hours/days by the system.
(I tried the upgrade button, but the webpage asks me the monthly/yearly pay... See more Hi Kevin,
Sorry to bother you, but I was wondering how the upgrade works.
I used my Proz account to sign up for TM-Town.
I got the Basic plan. As requested, I added the translation sample I have on my Proz profile.
My account is still Basic, so I was wondering if I have to do something to upgrade it in my profile settings or it will be upgraded in some hours/days by the system.
(I tried the upgrade button, but the webpage asks me the monthly/yearly payment.)
Thank you in advance for your help,
Lidia ▲ Collapse
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Local time: 23:43
| Upgrade is automatic | Apr 26, 2016 |
Hi Lidia,
Thanks for giving TM-Town a try. Your account has just been upgraded to 'Starter'. Every hour or so the system will check for members that need to be upgraded and upgrade them automatically.
If anyone has an issue with the upgrade, feel free to email us and we'll check on it for you.
Kevin
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Kevin Dias wrote:
In other words, to use sharing in this sense, you are 'sharing' a file with TM-Town just like you would be 'sharing' a file with your email provider (a 3rd party), Dropbox (a 3rd party), etc.
Kevin, and that is exactly the issue.
You seem to suggest that if someone uses some third party services, it doesn't matter if the translation goes to 1 or 10 such third parties.
However I perceive a difference. With e-mail, there already is a tacit consent by the customer to use it, as it them themselves who assign the project that way (via their and my e-mail) in the first place. But that says nothing about their agreement with further sharing the translation work with any other third parties, including TM Town or Dropbox.
With Deshi, no aligned data or full segments are sent to TM-Town. (...) Sample translation...
Yes, but TM Town penalizes users in the ranking who don't use aligned data.
In other words, TM Town says to the translator that it is better to share full TM units - back to square one I'm afraid. (By the way, can segments/terms be redacted only via Deshi, or also before direct upload of TUs into TM Town?)
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Automatic downgrade | Apr 26, 2016 |
Tomas Mosler, wrote:
Yes, but TM Town penalizes users in the ranking who don't use aligned data.
It does seem that not paying extra for TMTown effectively downgrades "normal" users. That is why I am reconsidering my membership of Proz.
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Meta Arkadia wrote:
Not if that opinion is completely unfounded.
Michael J.W., Kevin himself, and I have tried to explain repeatedly how TM-T works, what the risks are, and what benefits it offers. It's not the Holy Grail, but it can help in a number of areas. If you don't trust it, don't use it. I trust Kevin, and, at least in this case, ProZ.
Hans, none of this makes the previously raised concerns unfounded. Confidentiality issues will not disappear just because the system is optional.
Would you mind to specify in what regard is the opinion
a) that the use of TM Town may constitute, and in some cases likely constitutes, a violation of confidentiality of translation work (this obviously happening much easier if some users simply trust ProZ and use any integrated feature without a second thought), and
b) that TM Town privileges (by better ranking) such use (sharing of aligned TUs) over less risky option (Deshi)
"completely unfounded"?
It is very easy to say "you are wrong", but I prefer to know why - just like I didn't limit my contribution in this thread to e.g. saying "TM Town is risky". After all, even you yourself do mention risks - so why there should be a difference if others refer to them as well.
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Tom in London wrote: Tomas Mosler, wrote:
Yes, but TM Town penalizes users in the ranking who don't use aligned data. It does seem that not paying extra for TMTown effectively downgrades "normal" users. That is why I am reconsidering my membership of Proz.
Do you mean "normal" users of TM Town, or of ProZ? I referred to the former. To my understanding, the use of / membership in ProZ is completely independent to the use of / membership in TM Town...?
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:43
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| relative risks | Apr 26, 2016 |
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote: Meta Arkadia wrote:
Not if that opinion is completely unfounded.
Michael J.W., Kevin himself, and I have tried to explain repeatedly how TM-T works, what the risks are, and what benefits it offers. It's not the Holy Grail, but it can help in a number of areas. If you don't trust it, don't use it. I trust Kevin, and, at least in this case, ProZ. Hans, none of this makes the previously raised concerns unfounded. Confidentiality issues will not disappear just because the system is optional. Would you mind to specify in what regard is the opinion a) that the use of TM Town may constitute, and in some cases likely constitutes, a violation of confidentiality of translation work (this obviously happening much easier if some users simply trust ProZ and use any integrated feature without a second thought), and b) that TM Town privileges (by better ranking) such use (sharing of aligned TUs) over less risky option (Deshi) "completely unfounded"? It is very easy to say "you are wrong", but I prefer to know why - just like I didn't limit my contribution in this thread to e.g. saying "TM Town is risky". After all, even you yourself do mention risks - so why there should be a difference if others refer to them as well.
In terms of risk, I think it is riskier to communicate with clients and send files back and forth via email than it is to upload a .town file generated in Deshi. In fact, it can be argued that using email actually violates many people's NDAs, while uploading a .town file cannot.
Michael
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 16:43
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| Confidentiality etc. | Apr 26, 2016 |
Initially, I was completely against using TM-Town. I'd never even remotely think of uploading my TMs.
However, I think that Deshi solves these issues. I can't see how uploading a Deshi file should i) raise confidentiality concerns or ii) can be seen as giving my translation work away.
Other concerns are still valid, though, mainly the issue that the amount of translated work within a given context documented via a Deshi file doesn't say anything about the quality of the... See more Initially, I was completely against using TM-Town. I'd never even remotely think of uploading my TMs.
However, I think that Deshi solves these issues. I can't see how uploading a Deshi file should i) raise confidentiality concerns or ii) can be seen as giving my translation work away.
Other concerns are still valid, though, mainly the issue that the amount of translated work within a given context documented via a Deshi file doesn't say anything about the quality of the translations. The fraudulent workaround described in an earlier post (get large chunks of commercially interesting source texts -> machine translation -> upload TM or Deshi file to TM-town -> high ranking) is, although an extreme case, quite possible. But even if you replace the MT stage by substandard human translation, no client is going to know.
So, while I still think that there are quite some important problems to solve (and I'm not sure whether they can be solved at all), I'm willing to give it a try, since I won't risk anything using Deshi files.
My 2 cents.
[Edited at 2016-04-26 14:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:43
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Oh dear … what is "TMreserve"? | Apr 26, 2016 |
I just received an email advertising this:
https://tmreserve.com/start
… which appears to be a copy of TM-Town.
Kevin, have you heard of them yet? Anyone here know how they compare to TM-Town?
Michael
I'm just reading their FAQ, etc. now, and the idea seems to be an exact copy of Kevin's (which is "Patent Pending"): find a translator for your... See more I just received an email advertising this:
https://tmreserve.com/start
… which appears to be a copy of TM-Town.
Kevin, have you heard of them yet? Anyone here know how they compare to TM-Town?
Michael
I'm just reading their FAQ, etc. now, and the idea seems to be an exact copy of Kevin's (which is "Patent Pending"): find a translator for your document based on an automatic system involving matching between the translators' src/trgt segments, keywords, etc. and your document.
[Edited at 2016-04-26 12:27 GMT]
[Edited at 2016-04-26 12:28 GMT]
One very big difference: TMreserve apparently sells TMs!
The email says:
"Brand new: Our Instant TM Download!
Customers: Buy customised TMs at the click of a mouse
TM owners: Sell customised TMs even without clicking your mouse
Well over 1.2 BILLION translation units"
How can a brand new company have "over 1.2 billion TUs" of TMs? Looks like they are reselling the DGT-TM, CELEX, etc. data. That is, all the publicly-available stuff. That is, this: http://opus.lingfil.uu.se/ Looks very fishy to me.
[Edited at 2016-04-26 15:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Received the same message.... | Apr 26, 2016 |
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote: I just received an email advertising this: https://tmreserve.com/start … which appears to be a copy of TM-Town. Kevin, have you heard of them yet? Anyone here know how they compare to TM-Town? Michael I'm just reading their FAQ, etc. now, and the idea seems to be an exact copy of Kevin's (which is "Patent Pending"): find a translator for your document based on an automatic system involving matching between the translators' src/trgt segments, keywords, etc. and your document. [Edited at 2016-04-26 12:27 GMT] [Edited at 2016-04-26 12:28 GMT] One very big difference: TMreserve apparently sells TMs! The email says: "Brand new: Our Instant TM Download!
Customers: Buy customised TMs at the click of a mouse
TM owners: Sell customised TMs even without clicking your mouse
Well over 1.2 BILLION translation units" How can a brand new company have "over 1.2 billion TUs" of TMs? Looks like they are reselling the DGT-TM, CELEX, etc. data. That is, all the publicly-available stuff. That is, this: http://opus.lingfil.uu.se/ Looks very fishy to me. [Edited at 2016-04-26 12:32 GMT]
.... in my Spambox. Think I leave it there.
| | | | ..... (X)
Local time: 23:43
| Loading a Deshi file same as loading a TM | Apr 26, 2016 |
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
Yes, but TM Town penalizes users in the ranking who don't use aligned data.
In other words, TM Town says to the translator that it is better to share full TM units - back to square one I'm afraid. (By the way, can segments/terms be redacted only via Deshi, or also before direct upload of TUs into TM Town?)
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
b) that TM Town privileges (by better ranking) such use (sharing of aligned TUs) over less risky option (Deshi)
Wrong. Not sure where you got that from. Loading a TM directly to TM-Town or loading a Deshi file of the TM has the exact same effect (both in one's ranking in the traditional directory and in Nakōdo).
The only difference is that if you load a TM you can search your own segments and terms through our browser search or one of our CAT tool extensions (SDL Trados Studio 2015 or CafeTran).
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Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
Can someone from the ProZ team explain to me how can one treat translation information as confidential (which is of utmost priority to me), and at the same time share it with any third party (no matter their privacy policy - it is a third party)?
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
However I perceive a difference. With e-mail, there already is a tacit consent by the customer to use it, as it them themselves who assign the project that way (via their and my e-mail) in the first place. But that says nothing about their agreement with further sharing the translation work with any other third parties, including TM Town or Dropbox.
Which one is it?
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Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
Kevin, have you heard of them yet?
Apart from seeing their advertisement in the past week, I don't know anything about them. 100% definitely not related or affiliated in any way.
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Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
To my understanding, the use of / membership in ProZ is completely independent to the use of / membership in TM Town...?
Correct.
| | | | | to Kevin's response | Apr 26, 2016 |
Kevin Dias wrote: Maxi Schwarz wrote:
Re:
A "qualifying document" reflects your areas of expertise........ [too long to quote a 2nd time]
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread there are many ways that a client visiting your TM-Town profile can ascertain your expertise including: - Years of experience - Education - Associations and Memberships - Certified Pro Status - KudoZ points - WWA feedback - Sample translations......
My expertise (in a subject area) has already been determined by my professional body. If I want my area of expertise listed, I need to offer proof in the sense that I might have a degree and/or experience in that area. My examples were a doctor or nurse for expertise in medicine, my own B. Ed. and teaching experience for expertise in education. The professional body looks at and verifies this background as knowledgeable thinking human beings, and determine that the translator does indeed have that expertise.
Nothing listed above does the same. At the same time, as I understand it, there is some kind of software system that "determines" expertise based on uploaded sample translation where "it" (the software) computes some kind of statistics which then allocates expertise, and gives an advantage to someone who uploads lots of stuff as possibly having "more" expertise ("expertise") based on that. The concern was set out more clearly by someone else some place in this thread. We see for example in places where people ask terminology questions that sometimes a person is translating material where s/he obviously has no background or expertise, but translates it anyway. Statistically this person might translate loads of material on a given subject, which could give rise to those kinds of statistics where the system (the software thingy) then determines that this person has "expertise", over a person who has actual expertise (a degree and/or working experience in that area).
Sorry for the wordiness. I'm having problems expressing this a second time round, since I think the first time it wasn't quite understood.
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..... (X)
Local time: 23:43
| Confidential Information Redaction tool | Apr 26, 2016 |
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
(By the way, can segments/terms be redacted only via Deshi, or also before direct upload of TUs into TM Town?)
Both ways. We have a Confidential Information Redaction tool for TMs uploaded directly to TM-Town as well. Actually, we had this before we even created Deshi.
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Michael J.W. Beijer wrote: I just received an email advertising this: https://tmreserve.com/start … which appears to be a copy of TM-Town.
They are an advertiser, which was accepted because we have a separation between vendor services and the rest of the business (for reasons of fairness). We'll have to look into the question of whether or not there is a conflict with the TM-Town (pending) patent.
| | | | ..... (X)
Local time: 23:43
| Education & Professional Associations and Memberships | Apr 26, 2016 |
Kevin Dias wrote:
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread there are many ways that a client visiting your TM-Town profile can ascertain your expertise including:
- Years of experience
- Education
- Associations and Memberships
- Certified Pro Status
- KudoZ points
- WWA feedback
- Sample translations......
Maxi Schwarz wrote:
My expertise (in a subject area) has already been determined by my professional body. If I want my area of expertise listed, I need to offer proof in the sense that I might have a degree and/or experience in that area. My examples were a doctor or nurse for expertise in medicine, my own B. Ed. and teaching experience for expertise in education. The professional body looks at and verifies this background as knowledgeable thinking human beings, and determine that the translator does indeed have that expertise.
Nothing listed above does the same.
Listed above were both Education and Associations and Memberships. In other words, on the TM-Town profile there are 2 very clear areas where a translator can list one's degrees and professional bodies s/he belong to.
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