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ysun  Identity Verified
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以这种方式扣帽子,确实不高明! Apr 3, 2008

不提出任何理由就说人家在威胁,难道不是典型的扣帽子?

chance wrote:

以这种理由威胁,确实很高明!

Yueyin Sun wrote:
去年你差点被彻底赶出论坛,尽管你嘴上说不在乎,但依我看,如果你真的被彻底赶出论坛,不能继续在此连篇累牍地说教,你一定会浑身不自在。


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xxxchance
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请你仔细读读你自己的帖子 Apr 3, 2008

理由都写在里边了。

Yueyin Sun wrote:

不提出任何理由就说人家在威胁,难道不是典型的扣帽子?

chance wrote:

以这种理由威胁,确实很高明!

Yueyin Sun wrote:
去年你差点被彻底赶出论坛,尽管你嘴上说不在乎,但依我看,如果你真的被彻底赶出论坛,不能继续在此连篇累牍地说教,你一定会浑身不自在。


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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我的性格決定我永遠也不會站在任何一邊 Apr 3, 2008

我的中間名叫NEUTRAL. 我就想說, 咱別吵了行不?記得你們幾位不是挺好的嗎原來?犯不上為不相干的議題動肝火啊.Wenjer, 人家樂音原來不是聲援(或說支持)過你嗎?別再charllenge 或Confront 了吧.

[Edited at 2008-04-03 15:54]

[Edited at 2008-04-03 15:59]


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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天津市井里有句老話,叫 Apr 3, 2008

誰跟誰好就別說了.

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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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??? Apr 3, 2008

Don't worry. I know you and won't push you to stand up for any side.

Yes, we were all right with each other. There was a correspondance between me and the said person in which we both were glad to be living outside of the country in which the social situation makes us sad. Well, I don't know why it turns out to be otherwise. But, I am still glad that both he and I are not living in that country, though we now know that we do have different stands and views.

Challenge or confrontation? Why? I don't need such things.

jyuan_us wrote:

我的性格決定我永遠也不會站在任何一邊

我的中間名叫NEUTRAL. 我就想說, 咱別吵了行不?記得你們幾位不是挺好的嗎原來?犯不上為不相干的議題動肝火啊.Wenjer, 人家樂音原來不是聲援(或說支持)過你嗎?別再challenge 或confront了吧.


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
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謝謝你糾正我的拼字錯誤 Apr 3, 2008

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Don't worry. I know you and won't push you to stand up for any side.

Yes, we were all right with each other. There was a correspondance between me and the said person in which we both were glad to be living outside of the country in which the social situation makes us sad. Well, I don't know why it turns out to be otherwise. But, I am still glad that both he and I are not living in that country, though we now know that we do have different stands and views.

Challenge or confrontation? Why? I don't need such things.

jyuan_us wrote:

我的性格決定我永遠也不會站在任何一邊

我的中間名叫NEUTRAL. 我就想說, 咱別吵了行不?記得你們幾位不是挺好的嗎原來?犯不上為不相干的議題動肝火啊.Wenjer, 人家樂音原來不是聲援(或說支持)過你嗎?別再challenge 或confront了吧.


看到了.


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ysun  Identity Verified
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说话负点责任 Apr 3, 2008

我说过,当时我与李斌一起通过规定渠道“参”了某人一本,并不是为了你个人,而是针对某人的一些错误做法,其中涉及到与好几个同仁有关的事情。你不要企图给人造成我是你的“亲密战友”的印象。你的“亲密战友”不是我。你当时群发的 Emails 以及单独给我的 emails,正好还全部留在我另一台准备淘汰的电脑上。不过,我会基于做人的基本道德,保护你的隐私,除非你希望将这些隐私公诸于世!
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Don't worry. I know you and won't push you to stand up for any side.

Yes, we were all right with each other. There was a correspondance between me and the said person in which we both were glad to be living outside of the country in which the social situation makes us sad. Well, I don't know why it turns out to be otherwise. But, I am still glad that both he and I are not living in that country, though we now know that we do have different stands and views.

Challenge or confrontation? Why? I don't need such things.

jyuan_us wrote:

我的性格決定我永遠也不會站在任何一邊

我的中間名叫NEUTRAL. 我就想說, 咱別吵了行不?記得你們幾位不是挺好的嗎原來?犯不上為不相干的議題動肝火啊.Wenjer, 人家樂音原來不是聲援(或說支持)過你嗎?別再challenge 或confront了吧.


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ysun  Identity Verified
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你最好回顾一下 Apr 3, 2008

你最好回顾一下去年Wenjer “差点被彻底赶出论坛”时你自己的那一大堆帖子。
chance wrote:

请你仔细读读你自己的帖子

理由都写在里边了。

Yueyin Sun wrote:

不提出任何理由就说人家在威胁,难道不是典型的扣帽子?

chance wrote:

以这种理由威胁,确实很高明!

Yueyin Sun wrote:
去年你差点被彻底赶出论坛,尽管你嘴上说不在乎,但依我看,如果你真的被彻底赶出论坛,不能继续在此连篇累牍地说教,你一定会浑身不自在。


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Wenjer Leuschel  Identity Verified
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I don't need such things. Apr 3, 2008

And I don't intend to publicize private correspondance. I am really glad that we both are living in free countries, free to say what is properly to be said.

I respect your privacy, too. Don't worry about it. I never regard you as a "亲密战友." There is no such thing. Each one of us has the right to have his opinions about right or wrong. I have mine and you can keep yours. No problem.

Yueyin Sun wrote:

我说过,当时我与李斌一起通过规定渠道“参”了某人一本,并不是为了你个人,而是针对某人的一些错误做法,其中涉及到与好几个同仁有关的事情。你不要企图给人造成我是你的“亲密战友”的印象。你的“亲密战友”不是我。你当时群发的 Emails 以及单独给我的 emails,正好还全部留在我另一台准备淘汰的电脑上。不过,我会基于做人的基本道德,保护你的隐私,除非你希望将这些隐私公诸于世!
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Don't worry. I know you and won't push you to stand up for any side.

Yes, we were all right with each other. There was a correspondance between me and the said person in which we both were glad to be living outside of the country in which the social situation makes us sad. Well, I don't know why it turns out to be otherwise. But, I am still glad that both he and I are not living in that country, though we now know that we do have different stands and views.

Challenge or confrontation? Why? I don't need such things.

jyuan_us wrote:

我的性格決定我永遠也不會站在任何一邊

我的中間名叫NEUTRAL. 我就想說, 咱別吵了行不?記得你們幾位不是挺好的嗎原來?犯不上為不相干的議題動肝火啊.Wenjer, 人家樂音原來不是聲援(或說支持)過你嗎?別再challenge 或confront了吧.


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xxxchance
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是的 Apr 3, 2008

我开始曾想过调和建军和文哲的关系,没有成功。后来在看到文哲要被禁止上论坛时,我觉得不公平,替他说了不少话,尽管他在那之前和之后仍经常和我争论。我喜欢打抱不平,尽管我知道很不实惠。

现在我支持的也是一些同事的观点,而不是看人支持。这也是为什么我不轻易与论坛的人业务合作的道理之一,这样我可以不考虑其它因素,而可以保持自己的独立思考与见解。

我把当时讨论的主要栏链接找出来了,有时间大家也可以看看。
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/84757-new_chinese_moderator.html?start=0&float=

Yueyin Sun wrote:

你最好回顾一下去年Wenjer “差点被彻底赶出论坛”时你自己的那一大堆帖子。


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ysun  Identity Verified
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做人说话要实事求是 Apr 3, 2008

chance wrote:

我开始曾想过调和建军和文哲的关系,没有成功。后来在看到文哲要被禁止上论坛时,我觉得不公平,替他说了不少话,尽管他在那之前和之后仍经常和我争论。我喜欢打抱不平,尽管我知道很不实惠。

在去年那两人的冲突事件中,你明显地是在拉偏架。对于“文哲要被禁止上论坛时”你“觉得不公平,替他说了不少话”一说,我的印象倒不深,也不知Wenjer会不会领你的情。但我印象很深的却是当 Wenjer “掉在井里”没有发言权时,你还一封接一封地发公开信和帖子批评、攻击 Wenjer。我使用“攻击”一词也许你又会说我在扣你帽子,但你在给Wenjer的一封公开信中对Wenjer说的“我难以对你的人品再有任何信任”,不知算不算得上人身攻击?本来这些陈谷子烂芝麻的事情没必要再提,但你既然要提,那就应该实事求是的提,而且不要哪壶不开就不提哪壶。要还事实一个真实面貌。这里你和 Wenjer 发的帖子大概是最多的,多得难以找寻。但如果真有必要去找,还是可以找出来的。所以,说话要实事求是。

最后,再提醒你和 Wenjer 一句,你们对与你们意见相左的同仁一再地扣帽子,进行人身攻击,你甚至还把国内某位同仁比作二战“战犯和新纳粹份子”。这正是你们俩的对立面越来越多的原因之一。该刹车了!

chance wrote:

同意文哲的看法

如果有人认为全世界大部分民主国家的人都不知道中国的情况,而中国人却知道所有其它国家的真相,你们自己相信吗?

像二战那样的战争,德国人绝大多数都在自己总结教训,除了极少数战犯和新纳粹份子才会有Renquan 那样的看法。

所谓的中国威胁论,在欧洲很少听说,也许美国有一部分人有这种看法,但也不是代表全部美国人民。如果我没理解错 Renquan 帖子里的仇恨,我看警惕这种想法也不过分。
Renquan Yang wrote:

中国威胁论的实质就是欧洲中心论的具体表现罢了,因为中国发展了,就可能危及以美国和西欧国家集团为核心的现行政治经济国际秩序,就如同当年德国快速发展,实质上打乱了以当时英法为核心的国际政治经济殖民体系样。所有既得利益国家都不希望出现这么个强劲对手,而德国却希望能够在当时的国际政治秩序中占有一席之地一样。于是矛盾就此产生。当时的德国因种种原因最终采取战争途径解决问题,其最终结果众所周知。这对现在的中国也很有借鉴意义。


[Edited at 2008-03-17 10:33]



[Edited at 2008-04-03 19:57]


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Libin PhD  Identity Verified
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大家不要再争了吧 Apr 3, 2008

政治这东西,对我们小老百姓来说,虽然不能说没有关系关系,其实关系不大,我们在这里争得面红耳赤,也改变不了什么,何必呢?

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ysun  Identity Verified
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不要虚张声势 Apr 3, 2008

Wenjer,

你不要虚张声势。你当时给我的信件绝大多数是同时发给很多人的,其中只有极少数是你发给我和另一位同仁的。我根本就不担心你公开我给你的任何答复信,但你不要瞎编。我会把我们以前来往的所有 Emails 存在硬盘上永久保存备查。如果有必要,你可以公开我给你的所有信件,但前提是双方采取对等行动。不过,你的“亲密战友”看了你的某些信可能会不大高兴。

当时我和李斌共同递交那份 support request ticket,并不意味着我们同意你的政治观点。当时我给某位 moderator 打电话谈起你的事情时,曾明确表示我并不同意你的政治观点,但那件事与Proz.com会员的政治观点无关。

你今天如此对待那些曾帮你说过一些公道话的人,可能会使人想起“农夫与蛇”的寓言。等冬天再来时,连你的“亲密战友”也未必会替你说话、打抱不平了。:D
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

I don't need such things.
And I don't intend to publicize private correspondance. I am really glad that we both are living in free countries, free to say what is properly to be said.

I respect your privacy, too. Don't worry about it. I never regard you as a "亲密战友." There is no such thing. Each one of us has the right to have his opinions about right or wrong. I have mine and you can keep yours. No problem.

Yueyin Sun wrote:

我说过,当时我与李斌一起通过规定渠道“参”了某人一本,并不是为了你个人,而是针对某人的一些错误做法,其中涉及到与好几个同仁有关的事情。你不要企图给人造成我是你的“亲密战友”的印象。你的“亲密战友”不是我。你当时群发的 Emails 以及单独给我的 emails,正好还全部留在我另一台准备淘汰的电脑上。不过,我会基于做人的基本道德,保护你的隐私,除非你希望将这些隐私公诸于世!
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Don't worry. I know you and won't push you to stand up for any side.

Yes, we were all right with each other. There was a correspondance between me and the said person in which we both were glad to be living outside of the country in which the social situation makes us sad. Well, I don't know why it turns out to be otherwise. But, I am still glad that both he and I are not living in that country, though we now know that we do have different stands and views.

Challenge or confrontation? Why? I don't need such things.



[Edited at 2008-04-04 00:29]


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xxxchance
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说得对 Apr 4, 2008

我已经把我现在能想到的链接贴出来了,大家可以自己看到我们当时的帖子,恐怕不是你我现在说了算。

我说过,我是和文哲有过不少争论,但是当得知他要被禁止上论坛时,我还是站出来替他说了话,这点我想当时负责处理这件事情的两位管理员也一定记得我在论坛以及私下里与他们的讨论。

至于文哲自己当时和现在如何认识这个问题,还是让他自己说吧。
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/84757-new_chinese_moderator.html?start=0&float=

Yueyin Sun wrote:
做人说话要实事求是
chance wrote:

我开始曾想过调和建军和文哲的关系,没有成功。后来在看到文哲要被禁止上论坛时,我觉得不公平,替他说了不少话,尽管他在那之前和之后仍经常和我争论。我喜欢打抱不平,尽管我知道很不实惠。

在去年那两人的冲突事件中,你明显地是在拉偏架。对于“文哲要被禁止上论坛时”你“觉得不公平,替他说了不少话”一说,我的印象倒不深,也不知Wenjer会不会领你的情。但我印象很深的却是当 Wenjer “掉在井里”没有发言权时,你还一封接一封地发公开信和帖子批评、攻击 Wenjer。我使用“攻击”一词也许你又会说我在扣你帽子,但你在给Wenjer的一封公开信中对Wenjer说的“我难以对你的人品再有任何信任”,不知算不算得上人身攻击?本来这些陈谷子烂芝麻的事情没必要再提,但你既然要提,那就应该实事求是的提,而且不要哪壶不开就不提哪壶。要还事实一个真实面貌。这里你和 Wenjer 发的帖子大概是最多的,多得难以找寻。但如果真有必要去找,还是可以找出来的。所以,说话要实事求是。


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xxxchance
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是没意思 Apr 4, 2008

本来是想对问题发表不同看法,现在却要争论到以前的个人纠纷,实在没意思。我把该说明的说明一下,不再继续。

Libin PhD wrote:
大家不要再争了吧

政治这东西,对我们小老百姓来说,虽然不能说没有关系关系,其实关系不大,我们在这里争得面红耳赤,也改变不了什么,何必呢?


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